1) Look at the map of Xerxes’ empire above. I always thought we were talking about a localized extinction of the Jewish people. The decree went out to all provinces. If carried out, this would essentially wipe out the dispersed Jewish nation.
Let’s see. Earth was totally corrupted at Noah’s time causing God to step in. Pharoah ordered all Jewish male babies killed. Queen in one of the book of Kings tried to wipe out David’s line. Herod ordered babies killed in Bethlehem. Hitler killed 6 million Jews. Iranian president wants Israel wiped off the map. See a PATTERN? Not sure you can find another ethnic group that over thousands of years has been the object of such “bad luck”. I believe it is part of Satan’s plan to either wipe out the “chosen people” or destroy the Messiah (or the Messiah’s line). If successful, the Bible is a lie, and maybe Satan has a chance to win his rebellion against God.
2) Keep this thought in mind for future reference. Haman was referred to as an Agagite. Most commentators mention that this would make Haman a survivor of the Amalekites. Since Mordecai is a Benjamite it would make hime from the tribe of King Saul. Chickens are coming home to roost from Saul showing mercy on the Amalekites contrary to God’s will.
But there is more. It may be true, and I believe it is, that the Amalekites were descended from Esau. As an Edomite, from a biblical perspective, the whole dynamic of Esau vs. Jacob (Israel) is playing out. We will follow this thread of thought more as readings in Old Testament proceed this year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek
3) Vance: you can’t be very hard on your friend. Historians are split on the issue of “Esther” being an actual Historical event.
There are valid arguments on both sides. I am in the Historical camp for reasons that will be revealed at end of Esther. However, I can understand those that will not admit to a Historical view of Esther.
1Cor11:17-34
The Corinthains are a handful. So far, they have: had troubles with unity, sexual immorality, marriage and divorce, civil law cases, gender blurring, yielding in love to others, and submission to authority.
Paul now has no praise for them because of the abuses of the “churche’s” communal meals, and it spills over into the Lord’s Supper (Communion).
======================================================
AGAPE OR LOVE FEAST
The early church had a tradition of coming together and having a communal (covered-dish type thing) meal. Followed by communion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agape_feast
Before Paul had talked about theological disunity – now he addresses a practical problem.
“..the Corinthian Christians were coming from a culture where the pagans would commonly have wild, riotous banquets given in honor of a pagan god. This is how it might not seem so strange to the Corinthian Christians to even get drunk and a church common meal….In that day, at common meals, it was expected that the “upper class” would receive better and more food than the “lower class.” This cultural custom was being carried over into the church, and the Christians weren’t really sharing with one another. At the agape feast, the rich brought more food and the poor brought less food; but in Corinth they were not sharing the food fairly…Ancient culture, much more than modern American culture, was extremely class concious. It was respect of these class divisions which so grieved Paul.” – David Guzik
Don’t pig out, Don’t get drunk, share equally with those that have less, not only out of Christian Brotherhood – but out of respect for the Lord’s Supper (Communion).
======================================================
LORD’S SUPPER
(Notes)
1) Paul received instruction directly from Christ regarding the words of the Last Supper.
2) I believe Communion is done out of remembrance and to proclaim the sacrifice that was done for us. Christ died once for our sins, and the idea that communion is a re-enactment of his death over and over seems to denigrate that idea. I will just leave it at that.
3) We are “unworthy”, but we are not to partake of Commuinon in an unworthy manner. We should be reverant, submissive, reflective of Christ and His sacrifice for us, acknowledging His love for us, and certainly not drunk.
4)Examine yourself and make sure you are in the right frame of mind. If you partake of Communion in a careless, thoughtless manner that turns it into a ritual rather than an honest moment between you and Christ – “eats and drinks judgment on himself.”
[Note: Not “the” judgment, but a judgment of an action. God can assess this and not necessarily punish immediately or even here on earth, but HE does not forget. Apparently for Corinthians, chastening was meted out. The early church often got this to make sure wrong actions early on were corrected, as an example to others.]
5) Paul does say that because of this act of irreverance, the Corinthains have been punished here on earth – with sickness and even death.
======================================================
SOLUTION
If we judged (diakrino)ourselves, we would not come under judgment (krino).
If we decide for ourselves by self-examination and receive communion in a worthy manner, then we would not receive God’s judgment – it would not be necessary.
If not there will be chastening so that the “body of Christ” does not live as the world (in condemnation).
In Summary – Act rightly at the common meal and Lord’s supper, so that you do not sin and incur judgment and chastening.
John
======== Vance:
I have a good friend who was raised in Turkey; he is Muslim. He lived with me at my house for a time while he was in college obtaining his doctorate degree.
We would talk freely with one another about many things. It is a wonderful honor. We would talk faith, and about the difference between Islam and Christianity.
One day he and I got into a discussion about the book of Esther. Though normally a quiet spoken and gracious person, he became very angry when I told him the story of Esther—a Jewish woman made queen of Persia who God used to save the Jewish people from extinction.
It seems that Muslims do not believe this account ever happened. He informed me that the story was made up by people in the West.
~~~
Esther 3 (Amplified Bible)
10
And the king took HIS SIGNET RING FROM HIS HAND [WITH WHICH TO SEAL HIS LETTERS BY THE KING’S AUTHORITY] and gave it to Haman son of Hammedatha the Agagite, the Jews’ enemy.
12
Then the king’s secretaries were called in on the thirteenth day of the first month, and all that Haman had commanded was written to the king’s chief rulers and to the governors who were over all the provinces and to the princes of each people, to every province in its own script and to each people in their own language; it was written in the name of King Ahasuerus AND IT WAS SEALED WITH THE KING’S [SIGNET] RING.
I Corinthians 11 (Amplified Bible)
24
And when He had given thanks, He broke [it] and said, Take, eat. This is My body, which is broken for you. Do this to call Me [affectionately] to remembrance.
25
Similarly when supper was ended, He took the cup also, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW COVENANT [RATIFIED AND ESTABLISHED] IN MY BLOOD. Do this, as often as you drink [it], to call Me [affectionately] to remembrance.
29
For anyone who eats and drinks without discriminating and recognizing with due appreciation that [it is Christ’s] body, eats and drinks a sentence (a verdict of judgment) upon himself.
32
But when we [fall short and] are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined and chastened, so that we may not [finally] be condemned [to eternal punishment along] with the world.
NOTE:
Blood covenant. “Jesus paid it all—all to Him I owe” as the wonderful hymn goes.
Elements of blood covenant in the ancient world:
a.
God in Genesis 15 was saying to Abraham, “Even as the animals have died, I will stand with you and My promises. May what happened to these animals happen to Me if I do not keep My promise.
b.
Jesus, as the Son Who ratifies God’s Promises, now dies in our place as our Representative. He, as the Perfect Man, and as the Son of God says in the act of blood covenant: “I give Myself to you. I give you My strength. Your enemies are My enemies. I take your sins and weaknesses, and I give you My righteousness.”
c.
Seal of the covenant: Cutting of the flesh—life blood is being shed. The blood flows out of cut with promise of Jesus, “It is finished! Paid in full!”
d.
Jesus has become one with us and we with Him through blood covenant: The scar from the cutting of the flesh will never go away. It is the sign that we are one with Jesus and He is one with us.
e.
Our names change—from rebellious sinner to saved by Grace. When we sin now, it is a child of God who is redeemed. As such, as children, we need to thoroughly repent because we belong to Jesus and He lives inside of us. What an honor and privilege!
f.
Covenant meal of blood covenant in ancient times:
1.
Cup of wine:
* They drank wine, representing blood: “Drink my life’s blood
as I drink your life’s blood”.
* This means, “I see you fulfilling all the terms of the covenant
as I fulfill your life”.
2.
Piece of bread:
* The participants would feed each other as final statement: “Take me—all that I am. Eat of me, I am yours.”
~~~
We can see the blood covenant is how Jesus confirmed the covenant of the Father God with us. Jesus, the Father, and the Spirit are one in Trinity—three in one and one in three in perfect unity and agreement.
Jesus gave Himself as the Bread of Life. He confirmed it with blood covenant. Thus, as the Amplified Bible reads of I Corinthians 11:25: “THIS CUP IS THE NEW COVENANT [RATIFIED AND ESTABLISHED] IN MY BLOOD.”
~~~
Note that King Xerxes gave Haman his signet ring. In ancient times, when letters were signed, they would be sealed and closed with a small portion of melted wax. Then, the king would press the pattern of his signet ring onto the wax signifying that the letter was from him.
Whoever sealed a letter with the king’s ring was granted the same authority as the king!
There is a lot of symbolism here, but it is very practical for us today: Jesus—as the Son of God—ratified the covenant given by the Father for us. He took on our sins so we can become His righteousness. We are forever bonded with Jesus and the Father by blood covenant.
Jesus literally shares His own righteousness, strength, and authority with us. But—as I Corinthians 11 shows—we can only live and act in the Lord’s authority if we are living UNDER HIS AUTHORITY!
May we truly judge ourselves wearing the glasses of God’s Word. May we purge out the vile from the pure in our lives, so we can live up to the potential. We are made new creations in Christ. We are sons and daughters of the King.
If we properly judge ourselves and receive the discipline of the Lord, then we can become strong in our areas of weakness and we can glorify God!
~~~
The Corinthians were not eating and drinking the Lord’s supper in a worthy manner. Why is this? They did not treat the Lord’s supper in serious manner for what it is. As the Amplified Bible reads in I Corinthians 11:29:
“For anyone who eats and drinks without discriminating and recognizing with due appreciation that [it is Christ’s] body, eats and drinks a sentence (a verdict of judgment) upon himself.”
~~~
We are not—thank God—gods unto ourselves (though the devil would like us to believe that so we can enter judgment with him).
We are called to bear the image of Christ, and that only happens as we fulfill our part of the blood covenant: Jesus already shed His blood. Thank God there is no more blood to be shed.
Yet, we are called to give up our lives. “If Jesus be God and died for me, then nothing less than my life is fitting for Him.”
May we give our lives as living sacrifices unto God. When we sin and fail, may we quickly confess and become thoroughly cleansed from every stain of sin through Christ and His wonderful sacrifice.
Then, may we “walk in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh” (Galatians 5). More than that, we can only fulfill God’s will so others can hear about and see Jesus through us as we yield to the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is the God’s seal—the seal that Jesus is the down payment guaranteeing God’s promise of salvation to us.
May we be sealed in our life and behavior through surrender to the Holy Spirit so we Christ can truly be “our life” as He in actuality is.
Colossians 3 (NKJV)
1
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.
2
Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.
3
For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
4
When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
5
Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
Vance
======= Jan:
I ran across an article the other day “Sex in the City” by Mark Buchanan that focuses on Jonah, Esther & Daniel:
How do we respond to a corrupted culture? Two faulty examples and a better one.
In God’s Kingdom, judgement entwines with invitation, and is usually uttered with deep heartache. It’s God’s kindness that leads to repentance.
Jonah is my favorite prophet, and for no better reason than our uncanny resemblance. I’m bald and I figure him bald—why else his emotional tumult over how shade-dappled or sun-scorched his head? I’m short and I imagine him short: a stumpy, wiry guy, all that peevishness compacted tight as a nail bomb. He loved comfort and resented interruption, and that runs pretty close to my own bias. He was possessive, evasive, defensive, obsessive. Things not unknown to me.
Jonah is my least favorite prophet, and for exactly the same reason. He reminds me too much of me. I long to be Daniel-like in wisdom, Isaiah-like in righteousness, Ezekiel-like in faithfulness. I want the courage of Elijah, the endurance of Jeremiah, the long-view of Zechariah. I dream of standing down kings and outrunning horses, commanding drought and deluge with a word, calling down woe like thunderbolts and blessing like manna.
But I’m plagued with Jonah-likeness.
And here’s a deeper worry: so is the church. Not just my church, but the church—especially the church in North America. We’re evasive with God, resentful toward outsiders, smug about our own goodness. Prudish, hawkish, lovers of comfort, and nursing a giant grudge against anyone and anything that threatens it.
Just like Jonah.
That’s half the story, anyhow.
The other half is that the church is Esther, Esther prior to her awakening: assuming an insider status and willing to disguise her true identity for the sake of it, fearful of confronting her culture. We want to be like everyone else, only more so. We’re a people terrified of being peculiar. We’ll do almost anything to win a pagan king’s affections.
Jonah wants just to be left alone, and would happily let everyone else go to hell. Esther wants just to fit in, and willingly forsakes her distinctiveness to achieve that.
Between these two impulses, the kingdom always goes begging.
But this is about sex
And that’s exactly where I find these two stories so compelling, and so disturbing. Jonah and, implicitly, his community are threatened by Assyrian exile. Jonah is called as a missionary to the very people who bear that threat. Esther and, explicitly, her community are in the clutches of Persian exile. Esther is called to take a stand against the very people in whose land she and her people dwell but who now threaten to destroy them.
Neither story is about sex per se (though that’s a subtext in Esther: the things we do for love), but both are about God’s people living amidst pagan culture—a culture that is pervasive, seductive, potentially coercive, and often at deep odds with what God thinks. Both are about the ways God’s people try to negotiate their place toward or within that culture. And so both help us think through spiritual and ethical issues, including sexual ethics, for such a time as this.
How then shall we live?
Jonah chooses the way of condemnation. He hates the culture that threatens his own. His attitude is leave-us-alone and damn if you don’t. He is prideful of his distinctiveness (“I am a Hebrew and I worship the Lord, the God of heaven, who made the sea and the land,” he smugly tells the sailors whose ship he’s boarded, even though he’s using these men to escape this God), but he’s not the least bit inclined to invite others to share in it.
So when God calls him to confront the people of Nineveh, Assyria’s capital, for their wickedness, Jonah flees. He simply doesn’t want to get involved. When God forces the issue, Jonah goes—grudgingly—and trumpets the doom of Nineveh, and then waits to behold it, and relish it. When the Ninevites repent and God shows mercy, Jonah throws a full-scale tantrum. This is what he long suspected God would do, and he turns surly and self-pitying about it.
Jonah’s attitude toward pagan culture is an old standby for the church. Avoid outsiders, and when you can’t, protest against them. Lament the sorry state of things. Call God’s judgment down. Imagine, with pleasure, the punishment to be visited on the disobedient. Meanwhile, make yourself as comfortable as possible. And if the threatened divine judgment fails to materialize? Sulk. Mightily.
It’s hard not to think here of some conservative churches’ reaction to the homosexual community. I live in Canada, where recently our government, against the wishes of most Canadians, pushed through legislation that legalized same-sex marriage. A few months prior to that, I attended a citywide prayer meeting where this issue was at the forefront.
Emotions were strong. I expected that, but what caught me by surprise was the tone of the meeting. It had a Jonah-like ring: jingoistic, gloating, self-righteous. People warmed quickly to themes of divine vengeance. They evoked it in vivid imagery.
The problem here is tactical as well as spiritual. Spiritually, we should be careful what we eat. Bloodthirst causes heartburn, severely. But tactically, this is hardly a way to start a kingdom revolution. The church on this issue should be begging God to help us to be Mark 2 communities: when people find out Jesus is in the house, they’re willing to break the roof open if that’s what it takes to get themselves and their sick friends inside.
I have talked with gay people about how they see Christians. Generally they see us as, well, you know the drill: bigoted, angry, narrow, hateful, afraid …
It’s a caricature, I know. Only, everything about that citywide prayer meeting supported it.
What if God’s larger desire is to invite people, all people, into the wideness of his mercy? Somehow the Ninevites were able to respond to God despite Jonah’s rancor and belligerence. After all, judgment is real, not to be trifled with. God’s wrath is being revealed against all godlessness and wickedness.
Only, Jonah doesn’t know anything but judgment. He is a Johnny-one-note. In God’s kingdom, judgment entwines with invitation, and is usually uttered with deep heartache (Oh, Jerusalem, Jerusalem …). It’s God’s kindness that leads to repentance. That kindness needs to be visible in the church. The consummation of the church’s missionary role will be that day when ten people from every tribe and tongue—Nineveh included—take hold of the hem of the robe of one believer and say, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you” (Zech. 8:23).
But Jonah is not interested. He doesn’t want his enemy’s repentance. He doesn’t want them in church, singing the songs of Zion. He certainly doesn’t want them coming to his church and bringing their own strange music with them. He wants them to pay, to suffer. He wants judgment, not mercy.
Jonah’s moral dogmatism, I think, hides his theological ambivalence. That’s usually what dogmatism does. Jonah is wary and begrudging, not just toward Ninevites, but toward God. He’s boastful of his knowledge of God but cagey in his relationship with him. He finds God both too hard and too soft—hard toward his chosen ones, soft toward the enemy. God, in his view, lacks an appropriate sense of favoritism.
I wonder if this isn’t the hidden motive of churches that take up Jonah’s style. Maybe the angry, accusatory stance is mostly a mask for our own misgivings about God.
“Fanaticism,” Carl Jung said, “is overcompensation for doubt.” We can trace this theological trajectory in the Pharisees. They disapproved of whatever they did not initiate. But Jesus identified their problem as a broken relationship with God. They overcompensated for doubt.
Jonah wants to condemn the culture. He would love to see it destroyed. The idea that it could be reclaimed, redeemed, invited to share in the goodness of God—such thinking is anathema to him. After all, he can hardly invite anyone, friend or foe, to taste and see that the Lord is good when he has not tasted and seen such things himself.
That’s only half our problem
The other half is being Esther, prior to her moment of reckoning. When it comes to pagan culture, Esther moves in precisely the opposite direction.
Jonah avoids it, caricatures it, condemns it. Esther accepts it, embraces it, extols it.
Many early interpreters and Bible commentators viewed Esther (and/or the Jewish community depicted in the book) as a type of the church in compromised, semi-pagan form. Modern interpreters generally dismiss typological readings of Scripture (with good reason), but as one who adjusts to a hostile culture, her example can be instructive.
She conforms to whatever standards the culture sets—dress like the reigning pop queen, subscribe to whatever attitudes are au courant—in order to look like everyone else, only better.
And here, it’s hard not to think of many mainline churches. In the recent controversy over same-sex marriage in Canada, entire denominations have aligned themselves with the spirit of the age. They want to be deemed beautiful in the eyes of the pagan king. The Anglican Church in Canada is even ostracizing dissenting churches and defrocking their ministers. The idea that the church should do anything other than endorse the culture’s current thinking on sexual matters is, in the minds of these denominational leaders, a throwback to medievalism. We’re in a new millennium now, is the rallying cry. We must move with the times.
If Jonah’s theological ilk were the Pharisees, Esther’s were the Sadducees. They valued expedience above faithfulness (or, more to the point, equated the two). The worst sin was to be out of kilter with the culture’s dominant values. Their highest goal was to reduce the lag time between the latest trends and their blessing thereof.
Of course, Esther eventually awakens from this. She realizes, in the nick of time, that the culture whose acceptance she craves is laying ambush for her and her people. And then, with savvy and courage, she finds a new way of living in exile.
But before that happens, Esther immerses herself in pagan culture. The idea that she should confront it, or refuse its wares, is unthinkable. She wants to be left alone, too—not by the culture, but by any sense that her primary loyalty lies elsewhere.
Both Jonah and Esther define two of the church’s reactions to today’s sexual values.
Shun and denounce.
Embrace and extol.
In my own church, I see both attitudes. Recently, I made a comment from the pulpit that the starting place for Christians to uphold the “sanctity of marriage” is not the courts but our own households. I cited statistics on divorce rates among evangelical Christians that put us pretty much in a dead heat with society at large. I talked about the high incidence of spousal abuse within conservative churches. I spoke about the widespread estrangement that prevails among many church-going couples. I mentioned the hidden plague of internet porn that is withering intimacy between husbands and wives.
Some people came out swinging: stop meddling with matters in here, they told me. Start condemning what’s happening out there.
Jonah.
On the other side, the statistics on premarital sex among evangelicals hardly distinguish us from all the other people on the face of the earth. And yet whenever I address this, a few folks take me aside and say, in effect, what’s the big deal? Aren’t there more important issues? A few kids are mixing it up between the sheets—well, so? Why fuss over that when we have a crisis of global warming, when the Amazonian rainforests are disappearing, when the sperm whale faces extinction? Recently, the Christian parents of a girl from our church tried to convince her to go on the pill. She sat them down and told them in no uncertain terms that she had no intention of having sex until she was married. They told her that was unrealistic, and she should go on it anyhow.
Esther.
What’s the alternative?
I think Daniel is our best guide for such a time as this. He stands between the extremes of Esther and Jonah. He, like Esther, lived in a time of Exile—Babylonian, then Persian. He lived among people mostly indifferent to his own convictions but who, when put off by those convictions, grew swiftly and menacingly hostile. He had to sort out his place within that culture: what could he, without violating conscience, say “yes” to? What must he, regardless of the personal risk, say “no” to?
Daniel had neither Jonah’s surly, haughty ways, nor Esther’s coy, accommodating manner. He had simple clarity and quiet integrity. Some things about the pagan culture—their education system, the political structure, their habit of naming you after one of their gods—no problem. Go to their schools. Work in their government. Bear their god’s name.
But one thing especially was taboo: king’s food. Of that Daniel would not partake. The food wasn’t wrong in and of itself. But it had been dedicated to pagan deities. To partake was to submit. To eat was to worship. So better to subsist on a diet of raw vegetables than eat the king’s rich meats and richer sauces, his wines and confections.
But Daniel and his companions did not merely subsist on vegetables: they thrived. They ended up more healthy and bright-eyed than all the other young men being trained with them.
We can sit under the teaching of our culture, and emerge shrewder in our own convictions. We can participate in the government of our culture, and bring glory to God by our diligence and integrity. We can be named after our culture’s deities (Mark—god of war!), and not suffer diminishment to our faith.
What we can’t do is eat king’s food.
But what is king’s food now? What is that element within our culture that, if the people of God participate in it, will ruin us?
I think it’s our culture’s sexual ethics.
What this culture lacks is purity. The church—especially Jonah—has not helped here much, because always we want to impose morality. Purity is to morality what intimacy is to acquaintance, what love is to tolerance, what oneness is to equality. Purity is not just a higher thing: it is a category unto itself.
I think we should stop preaching morality and start preaching purity. After all, no one wants to drink merely sterilized water, chlorinated water, water with a drop of iodine.
What awakens and then slakes thirst is pure water.
Daniel embraces the way of purity. He will not taint his body with what has been dedicated to another god. And if there’s a clear lesson from his story, it’s this: that is the one true way to win a pagan king’s heart. Everywhere Daniel goes, the king ends up acknowledging that God alone is God.
At our church, we call young people to the way of purity, not morality. We call them to be Daniels. Far from languishing, they thrive.
Not long ago, I was invited by an Esther-like church to do a one-day seminar on worship. I was surprised by the invitation—I don’t get many like it. The pastor who invited me told me that most of his colleagues were deeply wary of me, some openly hostile. He told me of one fellow pastor who phoned him to denounce me. He denounced evangelicals as a breed. “What has this man in common with us?” he demanded to know.
“Why don’t you come and see?” the host pastor said.
I came with a team of worship leaders and dancers, men and women in their late teens or early 20s. Only a handful of people had registered. Even in the church’s tiny sanctuary, they seemed thinly scattered. I kept watching for the man who hated me. Though I never met him, I knew him the moment he entered. He walked in like he was hunting vermin. He sat down, his arms locked across his chest. When we started singing and asked the people to stand, he remained seated. He scrutinized the words on the overhead.
After lunch, we led seminars. The dancers taught basic choreography. The musicians taught basic song writing. And I taught a basic theology of worship. The man came to mine. He sat beside me, spoiling for a fight.
Ten minutes into it, he erupted. A woman commented how the mainline church had compromised the gospel, and he started trading blows with her. He had a litany of evangelical crimes against humanity. The argument escalated, and the host pastor jumped in.
“Well,” he said, mild-mannered. “I think the mainline tradition is perhaps somewhat narrow in its ecclesiology and broadly tolerant in its theology. Whereas the evangelical tradition is rigidly narrow in its theology, and somewhat loosey-goosey in its ecclesiology.”
A brief moment of silence followed. I seized my opportunity. “Who here are pastors?” I asked. A few put up their hands, including the angry man.
“Let me ask you this,” I said. “The young people I brought today, do you like them?”
Everyone did, including the angry man.
“Are there many young people like that in your own churches, who are that passionate, that in love with God, that committed to the church and her mission?”
No, they all said.
“Do you want young people like these in your churches?”
Yes, they all said.
“With all due respect,” I said. “I think you don’t have them exactly because of your broadly tolerant theology. That theology helped abort a third of their peers. With all due respect, it assisted in a creating a sexual ethic that robbed this generation of intimacy and hope. It has driven most of them out of the church.
“My opinion? If you’re really serious about seeing this kind of young people in your churches—not just warming the pews but leading—you might consider being less broadly tolerant.”
I went on to speak about how we don’t teach our young people to be moral. We teach them to be pure. We call them to be Daniels.
“You can see for yourself,” I said, “the difference that makes.”
I looked over at the man who hated me. He was stricken. I thought he hated me even more. I thought he would walk out. But to my surprise, he came back for the last session.
To my delight, he stood when we sang. To my amazement, he opened his arms and held them like he was catching rain.
And he sang with gusto. “Great is they faithfulness,” he declared. I think he meant it.
Daniel tends to have that effect on people.
Jan
Job 1-3:26
Job is the book I go to and think on when I need a reminder on how not to guess what God’s ways are like. Unfortunately, Job didn’t have the written Word of God to ascertain the ways of God, but thanks to Job’s experiences written down for us, we have the privilege to at least know what God is not like because we can look at the dialogue with his three “friends.”
One of the things I love in this book is the passage, in King James parlance, “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. (Job 1:6 KJV).
Evil showing up when good appears is the norm. Paul stated, I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. (Romans 7:21 KJV) Therefore, I need to stop being surprised when in the midst of something good happening, evil shows up.
There is also a verse in today’s reading that I believe is used wrongly by a lot of people. It is quoted as fact as if God spoke it, He did not,
Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshiped, And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. (Job 1:20-21 KJV)
The Lord allowed Satan to strike Job, but the Lord didn’t take anything away from him. Satan can only do what God allows him to do. I Also pray that I am never a friend or possibly a wife to someone using this as a rebuke, Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die. (Job 2:9 KJV)
These verses also show me that one can be godly and righteous, yet become depressed and possibly suicidal, yet not take one’s life.
I Corinthians 14:1-27
Whether one believes that speaking in tongues or even if the “gifts” are still in operation today, is really moot and deviates from the intent and purpose of this letter to the Church, correction. If the purpose of a thing is not understood, abuse is inevitable, as stated by Myles Monroe then Paul wrote this letter to correct abuse in the church and to underscore that what ever they had been given was not theirs to self-consume. The gifts are their for building up of the Body of Christ. No one gift is more valuable then the next because each has its purpose. Just like a cancerous grown on a seemingly insignificant part of the body can take out the whole body, so too something that “men” designate as inferior or insignificant is ignored, it can take out an entire church. The Church at Corinth was putting greater value on speaking in tongues, that was wrong, and whatever they were doing, they were not doing it in LOVE. This was an immature church, immature by choice using some very powerful gifts, given to them by God, wrongly. Have you given your three-year old your power tools today?
Psalm 37:12-29
Mike we are not godly because of anything we do or don’t do. God says, “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.”(Isaiah 64:6 KJV)
We can never be good enough by keeping the Law and if anyone breaks on of the laws (all 600 plus, not just the 10), they have broken them all (Deut 27:26; Gal 3:10). If God had said to Abraham, “I am a Rain Cloud walk before me and be wet because I am wet,” would we have to go jump into a lake to get wet? No, we would become wet because of who God is.
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. (Genesis 17:1 KJV)
Our righteousness, or steps being ordered by God comes from our relationship with Him, it comes from us being attached to the Vine as His branches.
Proverbs 21:25-26
Is being “needy” a nice way of saying someone is greedy? If it is then no matter how we “nice-it-up” needy is still greedy. And if “needy” and “greedy” are indeed one and the same, someone please correct me if I’m wrong—I know there are Psychologist that come to this site, the root cause is laziness as per the wisdom of Solomon. Yikes.
Grace and peace,
Ramona
======= Anka:
2For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
As a young christian my church encouraged me to”speak in tongues”.Though I do agree with Lehman Strauss on several points he brought up…there are some exceptions.
True speaking a language you do not know can be a sign to an unbeliever and can be used as an evangelistic tool.But if the verse says you speak “not unto men but unto God”and you speak mysteries that your mind can’t comprehend then I am not fully convinced speaking in tongues is ONLY when you speak in a language previously unknown to you.
I also have a little problem understanding the bit about women being silent in church because later on it says a woman should only prophesy with her head covered….so that really can’t happen if she’s supposed to be silent.
On the other hand I honestly think the gift of tongues has been misunderstood because it seems to have dimed the most important thing….love.There was a lot of talk about the gift of the spirit like there’s now a huge emphasis on how God doesn’t want you poor or sick..etc.So much so that it even turns away unbelievers who want to hear about salvation and loving your neighbour as yourself…I’m sure if we abide in Christ and seek to do His will then we’ll be on the right track.
On a personal note I have stopped speaking in the “tongues” I had been encouraged to as a new convert because I had some personal doubts about it.I strongly believe that turning the other cheek,interceeding for the lost and the church,loving others as you love yourself(even those you can’t seem to love)would shine a brighter light for the world than speaking in an unknown tongue…..
God bless you all
Anka
======== Luch:
I have not spoken in tongues but all through my journey with Jesus which has been 32 years I have often felt by my tongue speaking well meaning brothers and sisters in Christ that I have been missing something. And that without this ‘gift’ I am not ‘full or totally mature, or that I lack the ‘full gospel’. Thank God for this teaching on 1 corinthians 13 to follow the way of love, not the ‘way of tongues.’ It’s interesting that in Galatians 6:1-2 it says, “You who are spiritual should restore such a one with a spirit of gentleness…” So if one were to ask, “What does it mean to be ‘spiritual’ in the truly Christian sense, what would that mean? One needs look no farther than Galatians 5:22, 23 where it says, “But the fruit of the Spirit is love….and so forth.” Why not de-emphasize tongues speaking as the mark of being filled with the Spirit, and emphasize the character fruit of the Spirit??? Seems like we would all be better off if we were actively being formed in Christ through a pursuit of godly character in dependence on the Spirit.
I’m not suggesting that speaking in tongues is wrong. I just think it gets too much attention in certain circles. I think the subject is very complex, but love is NOT complex. Love is a choice!!! not a subjective feeling. Paul reminds us in 1 corinthians 14:1 “Let love be your highest goal…” And Paul gives plenty of guidelines for the proper exercise of gifts. If those who emphasize pursuing tongues are wise they will also pay attention to Paul’s guidelines.
by the way, has anyone noticed that Jesus never made mention of tongues, did He?? That doesn’t mean tongues cannot be used to come closer to God, but it’s still interesting that the highest mark of being a follower of jesus is still Love—‘by this all people will know that you are my disciples…if you love one another’ (john 13:34,35)
Luch
======== Pat:
The Lord has layed it on my heart this morning to make a simple statement pertaining to Job 1.
Satan is real! You cannot believe in God and angels and not believe in Satan and demons because at one time Satan was one of God’s angels that resided in Heaven with our Lord. You cannot believe that you live here on this physical planet Earth and not believe that Satan is real and here with us.
When the war in Heaven broke out between Satan and his angels who are called demons and Michael and his angels, Michael was victorious. God cast Satan out of Heaven and he was made to dwell on earth from that point on. (Rev. 12:7-9)
Earth and all upon it including mankind had already been created before Satan and his demons were condemned to Earth. Mankind was the last of God’s creations on earth and he/she was created to have dominion over (rule over) everything on earth. (Gen. 1:26) That means that mankind has dominion over Satan here on earth. Think about what a slap in the face that was to Satan. He was condemned to Earth to be under the dominance of man, who was actually created a little less than the angels!
This dominion is not a free gift. It is one of constant struggle. Satan and the demons are the wildest of the wild beasts, the fiercest and most conniving of all beasts on Earth, and they are always ready to strike at our weakest point in our weakest moment. We are like an animal trainer constantly in a cage with Satan and the demons. They are ready to pounce on us the second we let our guard down and give them the upper hand. We can only keep dominion over Satan through the use of the whip and that whip is our faith in and loyalty to Jesus Christ!
Because of our sinful nature, we should start each day out by asking God to give us the strength to control Satan that day and end each day with thanking Him for a victorious day.
God Bless!
Pat
======= Kate:
When ever I read Job I always think of the Book “The Sacred Romance”. Has anyone else read it? It really jumps into this relationship between us Satan and God. If you haven’t get it. It really opened my eyes….!
Kate
======= Jan:
Kate, re: “The Sacred Romance” – I have read all of John & Staci’s books, except “Waking the Dead.” For something even more awakening about satan & his cohorts & they are after us to steal, kill & destroy us – read “Lord Foulgrin’s Letters” by Randy Alcorn – very eye opening. I’ll send you an excerpt from it via email.
John, in regard to this comment you made yesterday: “God is deliberately not mentioned in this book – as God is not dependant on mankind for the carrying out of His purposes, Will, and plan. God may not be mentioned, but He is definately there making sure His Word, that the Jewish nation would be preserved, is kept.”
This comment was in my “Living Faith Bible/New Living Translation” – Although this story does not contain any “obvious” references to the Lord’s name, readers of Hebrew can spot the letters YHWH – the Lord’s covenantal name – repeated in acrostic form four times in the original text.
This was in the little bio/comment/text on Esther.
I don’t understand these verses/scriptures from 1 Corinthians 12:22-24 – would anyone care to elaborate???
22In fact, some of the parts that seem weakest and least important are really the most necessary. 23And the parts we regard as less honorable are those we clothe with the greatest care. So we carefully protect from the eyes of others those parts that should not be seen, 24while other parts do not require this special care. So God has put the body together in such a way that extra honor and care are given to those parts that have less dignity.
Jan
======= Maggie:
Great blog.
I think most of the time when I am compelled to just “utter” before the Lord…whether it is truly tongues or not, I do not know or care, really…it is because I need to surrender reasoning, and yet still remain mighty in prayer. The burden is there, but I cannot think about it in words without worrying myself. So, I just let something come forth that is to him whatever it needs to be.
Scripture says that it’s for just the edification of my spirit toward His, so I keep it private.
I am most disturbed at some religious groups trying to control private prayer languages by dictate. I’m not sure that anyone can or should try to dictate another person’s prayer life in such a way.
Great thoughts. Hope these help, and wish I had more scripture to back it up. I suppose “Spiritual Authority” by Watchman Nee bleeds into the thoughts for more as much as anything…the surrender of reasoning. “Trust the Lord your God with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways, acknowledge him, and he will direct your paths”. That is a good synopsis of it for me. Sweet surrender, stamps with an utterance of praisefuly, trusting, vervent lifting. Incense with a sound.
Maggie
======= TJ:
Tongues – yes, I speak in tongues daily. I understnad that to be my spiritual language which can express what my spirit wants to pray but my flesh cannot explain. It is my method of connecting my spirit to the Holy Spirit. I have seen many people speaking in tongues, and sometimes wondered about the validity of some. After seeing Deaf people who could make no sounds other than grunts and squeaks speaking fluently (in another language) I have no doubts.
Still, I think our focus should be on our relationship with God, with tongues being something that enhances that relationship.
TJ
======= Jenny:
Job has always been one of my favorites. He went through so much..he didnt know at the time why, but he still praised God. this book shows the enemy’s schemes, he goes back n forth across the earth seeling whom he may devour. But he could not touch God without His permission bcos of the hedge of protection around him. what a comfort to us, God’s children!
some verses that stood out:
Job 1:21 “The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; Blessed be the name of the LORD.”
Job 2:10 “Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?”
Job 3 has always touched me..I’ve been there, detesting life, detesting ever being born!
Job 3:11 “Why did I not die at birth? Why did I not perish when I came from the womb?”
How many, many times I have said the same thing!!
v. 20-23 “Why is light given to him who is in misery, And life to the bitter of soul, Who long for death, but it does not come…And are glad when they can find the grave?”
I have been there soooooo many times!!!
wow! i cant imagine not believing there is satan, hell, and evil???
I do not speak in tongues nor does that go on in my church service, though we believe in the gift. Personally, i would feel uncomfortable in a church like that, cause i’m not used to it. my best friend’s church utilizes the gift of tongues tho. I do not desire the gift for myself.
I loved Psalms:
v. 24 “Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the LORD upholds him with His hand.”
v. 25 has always been one of my favorite verses…it goes through my mind wen i fret at times:
“I have been young, and now am old; Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken.” ….I love that!
v. 28 “For the LORD…..does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever.” Great promise!
Jenny
======= Lisa:
I grew up in a tongue-speaking church and never wanted to have any part of it. I was saved at the age of 16 and came to a place when I was 29 that I needed what God wanted me to have. I realized that I did not have the wisdom to know what to ask for. I pray “Lord I need something, even if it is speaking in tongues.” I began to pray that way and felt the burden released. I agree with Paul that It builds you up in your own faith. When my husband and I pray together this way, it is amazing how we come together on things when a moment before we can’t see our way clearly through a decision or circumstance. I think that many people live for the Lord without this gift, but why would you want to?
Lisa
======= Matthew:
Mike,
Yes I speak in tongues and would like to share my experiences with you for the glory of God.
I have to admit that I did not speak in tongues, and did not understand the value of speaking in tongues until about a year after I had been saved and a sister in Christ encouraged me to seek out the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues. I’m glad I heeded her advice as I don’t know what I would do today if I did not speak in tongues.
I learned from John Bridge, a missionary to India, that when we speak in tongues we can receive revelation from God, as we connect our spirits, to His spirit. For lack of a better example, just as each and everyone of us connects with the Internet so we can connect with God by practicing speaking in tongues.
Let me share a few examples with you from my own life. Many times, if I can’t remember the name of a person or the name of a book. I’ll quickly go away and speak in tongues, and God will deposit the answer into my mind. I’ve done this on a number of occasions, as fellow believers would ask me to recall a book I read in which I was relating a story and I was unable to remember. However, I would go and speak in tongues, and the Lord would give me the answer.
On another such occasion, I was ministering to Christian sister and I did not know what to pray. So I prayed in tongues, three words were dropped into my spirit, father, incest and rape. I started to pray for the sister in these areas that God would heal her from that traumatic experience and she began to release tears of freedom and healing as I prayed for her. It was an amazing experience.
On another occasion, our church was spending an amazing time in prayer and worship and a brother in the Lord started to speak in tongues being led by the Holy Spirit, the Lord gave me the interpretation of Matthew chapter 11:28-30:
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
I then sensed in my spirit that the scripture was for someone in particular in the congregation, and it was then that the Lord revealed to me that there was a woman in the congregation who had been raped by her uncle. And I shared that if she would come forth for prayer, God would set her free. I did not allow the congregation to know that I knew who the woman was but simply allowed her to come on her own. As she came up, myself and the elders of the church laid hands on her and God did a marvelous work of healing in her life. It truly was amazing.
These have been some of my experiences with the gift of tongues. I’ve learned from a study of the Scriptures, as well as reading the books of those who have gone before me.
Thanks for writing the one year Bible Blog. Know that I am blessed by your blog and by what you share.
May God bless you richly,
Matthew
======== Dee:
I always wanted to speak in tongues, or at least since I was grown and went to a christian faith based church, it had esteemed me to know more about it, I had a wonderful lady at our church back then who was a blessing unto God, who walked me through it letting me know that I had it in me I just had to surrender to Jesus and ask Him for the gift to flow freely through me and while I was in my secret place, I asked and opened my mouth and recieved the baptism of the holy spirit and the ability to speak in tongues. Now prior to that I had heard others speak in tongues at a crusade I went to years ago and that was awesome all around you to see others in the spirit so strongly. I strongly suggest that when you get saved, that the next thing to receive is the utterance to speak in tongues. It is a free gift from our Father in Heaven. If evil men give to their own children, how much more will our Father, who art in Heaven and is so good to us, give to us? Love the one year bible blog and take care..
Dee
======= Karla:
Very well said, Dee. I couldn’t agree more regarding the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Additionally, the one year Bible blog has been such a blessing to me. I intend to continue this practice next year. I love Mike’s commentary as well as those who add their comments.
Karla
======== Susan:
I believe in speaking in tongues. It is a very wonderful experience and encounter with the holy ghost. I speak in tongues regularly as led by the spirit and I agree with Dee that speaking in tongues is a gift freely given to saved souls…all you need to do is yearn for it and ask God…Its like experiencing God on a different but higher level! Speaking in tongues is also a way the spirit of God makes intercessions for us! A lot of battles are won just by speaking in tongues…you might not understand what you are saying, but God understands (while satan is confused), and according to Paul (I corin 14:2) you are speaking mysteries in the spirit!…Ask God to fill you with the spirit of speaking in tongues…You’ll never be the same!
Susan
======== Ginny:
I definately believe in the gift of speaking in tongues. Although this has not happened with me, yet. My husband’s grandmother was a preacher and once we were all around the table holding hands to pray. As my husband was saying the prayer his grandmother began speaking in tongues. This was and is my only experience of being around someone speaking in tongues. It was such a powerful moment. I felt the power in her prayer to the Lord. I am an open an willing vessel for God to work in me how he sees fit. I have asked to experience speaking in tongues. When God is ready for that to happen I believe it will. This is my first post, I started reading with you guys about a year ago. I just finished reading the Bible for the first time through, this past Monday the 16th. Then I picked up with you guys on Tuesday to finish out this year and start afresh with you all next year. Thank you for taking the time to bless others through your ministry to the Lord.
Ginny
======= Art:
Thanks for your response, Ginny, and welcome to the Bible blog. It’s such a wonderful site and has been a blessing to all who have used it. Mike adds many points to ponder, and this comment page generally contains thoughts from our group that are so interesting and informative. The music link is also great!
Please stay with us and add your thoughts and comments regularly. We are blessed to have you here!
Thanks, Mike, for including the wonderful Matt Redmond song, “Blessed Be Your Name.” Not a day goes by without me listening to its message and praise. Let me suggest the version with Matt singing with the London Community Gospel Choir found on YouTube. This multi-racial praise group gives us more by their singing than mere words can describe. Heavenly!
Art
======= Tony:
I am blessed to be a member of a church that not only teaches and encourages all of it’s members to be covered with the Holy Spirit, manifested by the gift of praying in tongues, but also encourages faith in the truth that God is unchanging and that the powerful gifts of the early church are still available to all who believe in them and desire them today. Because they teach us about humility before God, the power of and need for a consistent, fervent prayer life and mentor those with the manifestation of different gifts on how to use them correctly, I have witnessed God use others of our church, especially teens, whose faith and love are pure and powerful and less hindered by worldly beliefs, to speak in tongues and then themselves or others to interpret those words to edify, exhort and encourage the body of our church during our monthly prayer summits. It is an experience like no other to witness. To use that gift requires faith, humility and a desire to be used of God. Ginny, I believe God will honor your desire to be used by Him and will lead you to a group of believers who can help you first develop a prayer life of both understanding and inthe spirit and then develop this gift in you if God has deemed it for you, so that you will not misuse it.
Tony
======== Ray:
What stands out to me in the book of Job is the mention of a Behemoth named Leviathan. the description of this Animal makes me believe he was either a dinosaur or a dragon.
Job is one of the oldest books of the bible. Job was around during the time of the patriarchs.
Ray
======= Frederick:
About tongue, I do not speak tongue. I heard other people speaking tongues in gatherings. Although, at the beginning, I felt a bit ‘uncomfortable’, this feeling subsided. I believe God touched people in different ways. To some, they speak tongues. To me, I am easily moved by hymns to cry. There is no need to worry about others’ impressions on you, be true to God.
Frederick
======= Lillie:
Speaking in tongues has been the most rewarding form of prayer I have yet experienced. Because the Holy Spirit is praying with me and through me I am assured that my prayers are correct and powerful. I find that when I pray in tongues my spirit is strengthened, I am refreshed, all my fears and worries are alleviated and I have a profound peace that settles over all my situations. I also sense the presence of God come into my room in a very strong way. After I pray in tongues I wait and listen for God’s voice. So often He speaks words of encouragement and even answers to the very thing I was praying about. I am so thrilled to have received this gift from God. It has truly changed my spiritual life and caused a definite increase in my walk, understanding and intimacy with God my father. I highly recommend everyone to seek God for this incredible gift. Because it is from God we can’t go wrong! It will definitely make a difference for you. There is a book by Bill Hamond titled “70 Reasons for Speaking in Tongues”. I highly recommend it as a source of wisdom and information regarding this subject. Blessings to all!
Lillie
======= Doug:
I am not a Greek student but am going to spend more study on Lehman Strauss commentary on Speaking in Tongues. I am interested in how chapter 13 and Love fits so well between chapters 12 and 14.
Thanks Mike for your gift of Blog and leading us through the Bible each year.
Doug
======= Susan:
The gift of tongues. So mysterious. I confess there was a season I ask God for this gift. But why? Perhaps I was impressed with those who spoke in tongues, perhaps I desired a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, perhaps I believed it would bolster my faith. God didn’t give this gift to me. I need to trust his wisdom and pray with words understood by myself and those I’m with. Was I disappointed, to be honest yes, but God knows best and understands us better than we do. So I am content to use the gifts I have for His glory. I praise his infinite wisdom.
Susan
======= Sandra:
It’s so sad our church has had a couple to leave bc of not speaking in tongues. I don’t deny any religion. I just let God be the judge. Our church needs Prayer for growth Ty. Enjoying bible blog
Sandra
======= Bonnie:
In 1974 my mother-in-law invited my husband and myself to a charismatic prayer meeting.She had been sharing with us about the Lord and these prayer meetings.We wanted to see exactly what she was into so we decided to attend.After a few weeks they announced a “Baptism in the Holy Spirit” 7 session seminar and we signed up with the thought that if there was anything to this being baptized in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues great but if not we had only invested some of our time.
On the last night of the seminars they prayed over us for the receiving of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. We were in the church and when a few of the leaders came to pray with me I initially became afraid as I had never had anyone pray over me before. I thought if I try praying in tongues they will move on down the pew to the next person. So I opened my mouth and began to speak and I did begin to speak in something different to me. Needless to say after it was all over I was sure I just did that myself. I thought to myself ..well I will just have to look for God somewhere else as I really wanted to know for sure that He was real!
The next morning while driving to work I noticed a joy and something definitely different in my inner being. In the evening I was alone and I was thinking about the night before and thought maybe I should try that speaking in tongues again. I happened to be standing in front of a mirror and when I opened my mouth I began singing joyfully in tongues and I looked in the mirror and thought to myself, “I’ve never been this happy in my life before.” I then began to be afraid and thought, what if this is something evil, so I knelt down beside my bed and I began singing in tongues again a song.. I recognized the tune but couldn’t remember the name of the song. Then I thought I don’t know if that is a good song or not. All of a sudden I spoke these 2 words out loud, “I Believe.” That was the name of the song I was singing in tongues. I used to sing it when I was a teenager. That settled it as I knew I had met God and He was real and I believed. My life and our families lives have never been the same. God has been faithful to us these 46 years.
Bonnie
======= Norma:
I speak in tongues. The first time I was given the gift was when I was praising God and wanted to be able to express more than I had words for. That was over 30 years ago Since then I have had the joy of praising God in this way countless times.
I have also encountered the use of tongues followed by an interpretation, in given words or through a scripture passage. At such times it appears that God is wanting to draw particular attention to his message.
There are times when people hearing tongues have recognised the languages being used and understood what was said. The first time it happened in my presence was when a woman sitting behind us leaned forward to tell my friend, who only speaks English, that she had been speaking in Portuguese and had given a message to her that she was going to have to act upon
Norma
======= Robert:
Tongues
I wasn’t going to pipe up abut this until Norma said something. Thank you Norma. I have only experienced this in the Pentecostal based churches myself. I guess I have seen it a dozen times or so and I am very comfortable with it happening. Usually there is a time in the service where the Holy Spirit is invited to “bring it on”. I have asked the Holy Spirit for this gift but to no avail and no regret. I think it’s a beautiful way to praise God and “see” His glory.
One time I was in the food line-up at a camp retreat and the woman in front of me with a couple of young children (she was even holding one), just started speaking in tongues. It was so casual, natural and appeared to be very normal for her. We all respected her but just carried on with our own conversations and getting our food. I thought how wonderful that some are that close to the Spirit’s movement and can feel so comfortable about it
It certainly made me more aware of my own Spiritual Formation and prayer life.
Robert
======== Zoe:
Lots of controversy around tongues is stopped if you read Jesus words in red and believe what it says .. Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Zoe
======= Brent:
Benefits of speaking in Tonques: 1) Constant Praise to God 2) Supernatural protection in spiritual warfare 3) Inner healing and forgiveness 4) Revelation: Sensitive to the voice of the Holy Spirit. Closer walk unto God. Deeper awareness of God’s presence 5) Perfect prayer of the Holy Spirit. 6) Physical healings taking place In addition, Singing in the Spirit builds you up! Jesus is the Living Logos. The Bible is the written Logos. The Holy Spirit utters the spoken Logos.Thank you very much for your Blog! Warmly in King Jesus The Messiah! (Isaiah 61:1-3 and Luke 4: 16-21)
Brent
======= Nancy:
Job & his wife experienced over whelming loss. His wife was grieving too. One of the outcomes is anger. I believe that is why she said what she said. God restored them both. Bringing children back into their lives along with so much more. Can’t believe the life spans. Kind of boggles the mind.
Nancy
======= John:
Job
1) Was Job real person or not?
Mentioned in Gen46:13, and given the time frame would have jived with the Orthodox Jewish belief that Job was an advisor to pharoah at the time of Moses’ birth.
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Job_%28Biblical_figure%29
However it would seem that the Orthodox Jeiwsh belief that Job suffered because of “silence” in advising on killing Jewish babies is incorrect based on the Book of Job.
Apparently Job was not an uncommon name, so the above may not apply. However, Ezek14:14,20 indicates Job was a real person – as to some degree James5:11.
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2) Lived in Uz. Uz is great-grandson of Noah. Also fits the general timeframe of Orthodox Jew’s as to when Job lived.
3)Job was blameless(perfect KJV) and upright. Well, we know no one is “perfect” – but Hebrew can mean “complete” with the idea that Job was balanced in his Life and revered God.
However Job can be perceived by God to be blameless and righteous. How? Just like Abraham “righteousness through faith”. God affirms His view of Job in Job 3:2. Why does God see Job like Abraham? Because Job reveres God, eschews evil, and believes in “the redeemer”
Job19:25-26
I know that my Redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand upon the earth.
And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
Job believed in the promise made to Adam that a ga’al (concept of kinsman-redeemer as in Book of Ruth)would come, in the ressurection of the body, and Job will see God in the end. Job had a faith and trust in God’s Word – so like Abraham, Job was declared righteous.
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4) Critical historians point to the fact that no mention of Mosaic Law, prescribed sacrifices, Levitical priest system also indicates a time before Mt. Sinai.
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5) If Job is real, God is real, angels are real – one would be hard-pressed to propose that Satan would be introduced into the story as a “fictional character”. Peter believes Satan is real, and even references Job as to Satan’s physical presence.
1Peter5:8 “Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.” NIV
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6) Satan proposes that the faithful (in this case – Job) are faithful for self-interest sake. He has blessings – of course he reveres you.
This premise is sometimes also espoused by non-believers, and this book is a lesson to them – that they are wrong about the motivations of the “faithful”.
God allows Satan to mess with Job’s material possessions, but God restricts Satan’s (puts boundries on what satan can do.)
IMPORTANT LESSON
Satan is powerful fallen angel, but he and his minions can do nothing more than God allows. Some Christians want to ascribe WAY too much power to Satan. Satan is not God’s opposite, he is God’s creation. He has power on the earth, but not complete power. Satan and his minions can test and tempt us, but it is not going to be anything more than we can bare, as God will prepare “the” way out, so that we can bear it. (1Cor10:13).
Satan does not challenge God’s authority in this – although he does push it to the limits. Then he comes back in an attempt to change the rules.
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7) Satan comes back and wants more authority to test Job.
[NOTE: Satan has access to heaven. He is an outsider,but he has access. Not sure when “battle” that Pat refers to will happen or if it happened already, but at this point Satan has access.]
Once again, God grants Satan authority to test Job’s physical well-being, but with limits. Once again a lesson, a person who is “faithful” does not depend on health for his “faith”.
Job does not curse God. He does not even call his wife foolish (immoral), but that she speaks like a “foolish woman”.
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8) Three friends arrive. More about them later as this is getting long.
But notice they ARE friends. They travel a distance to be there, they lament traditionally, and they sit with Job for seven days and nights – not to advise him, but just to be with him as comfort.
Do we as Christians go to such lengths for our friends? When they are joyous, or when they are sad? No matter their philosophy or theology – this is a great example of friendship.
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9) Job’s Lament
-Why even born?
-Why not die at birth?
-Why not die now?
Job does not curse God, or challenge God on these things —–
But he is seemingly questioning God’s sovereignty and/or wisdom.
Perhaps the lesson is: It is ok to question God’s decisions and actions. Perhaps through questioning and prayer we will gain greater insight into God and our faith.
John
======= John:
1Cor14:1-17
The “fruits” of the Spirit are more important than the “gifts” of the Spirit.
Paul has just finished talking about the “body of Christ” and all members are important no matter their “gifts”.
Remember the Corinthians are enamored with the Spiritual Gifts (byproduct of the Greek Culture), and they place a premium on the gift of “tongues”.
Now this has proved distracting at meetings, and/or promoted divisiveness in the Corinthian church.
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PROPHECY AND TONGUES
Three Directives:
-Pursue Love (Gk. implies aggressively)
-desire spiritual gifts (Gk. imples strive or eagerly)
-Especially the gift of prophesy.
Why Prophecy?
Tongues speaks to God.
Prophecy speaks to man.
NOTE: Prophecy is declaring something revealed by divine inspiration: could be future, the gospel, or about the church.
Paul is here in Corinth, as with all the churches he planted, – interested in exhorting, encouraging and edifying the “body”. He is primarily interested in the maturing of the individual Christian, and the maturing of the “”body of Christ”.
By accomplishing that “maturing” – we, as Christians are saltier, give off more light, and reflect more of God’s glory.
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Paul,despite what some will say, does not think speaking in tongues is bad.
He would like that all could speak in tongues, but if a choice – he would prefer “prophecy”.
Because Prophecy edifies the church. And unless one can interpret or have someone interpret the utterances of tongues – Paul would prefer the understandable language that prophesies.
(Remember Paul is trying to deflate some of the over-emphasis of tongues in the Corinth Church.)
To promote unity and edification of the church, since you seek spiritual gifts – SEEK those in ABUNDANCE that build the church.
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If you are going to speak in tongues, pray for an interpretation, so that others can understand the Praise to God and be built up.
The phrase “those who do not understand” in verse 16 is a Greek idiom meanng “inquirers”. The thought here may be you have people not yet Christians in the meeting, yet by being there are curious and interested – that would have no idea of what was going on.
[NOTE: I can vouch for that from my visits to some churches after being a Christian less than one year. When the pastors or church members would get into their proclamation to God in tongues – it was disconcerting (at best). I actually looked for the exits.]
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TWO THOUGHTS:
1) Paul is not denouncing tongues – If one could ask Paul I would think that the praying in tongues at home or in a private place is fine and good. As a gift of the Spirit it should edify the individual.
2)It makes me wonder about the idea that “tongues” is speaking another (earthly)language. I know two Christians that I trust that say they have witnessed someone speaking another language to a group or individual. The speaker of the language did not know the language or ever study it in his/her life.
I wonder if that is really “tongues”. The speaker was not speaking to God, but to individuals on earth. Bob Deffingbaugh addresses this issue, but I still wonder.
Anyway, to sum up, – tongues good;prophecy better. It is ok and good to seek the gifts of the Spirit, but eagerly seek the gifts that especially build up the “body of Christ”.
John
======= Vance:
Job 1 (NKJV)
8
Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”
9
So Satan answered the LORD and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing?
NOTE:
Certainly following and loving God does not guarantee there will be no problems, nor did God ever guarantee this.
In fact, Charles Colson (founder of Prison Fellowship International) says in his testimony that it was only after he became a Christian that he started to have serious problems!
God’s prosperity, goodness, and wisdom is SPIRITUAL WISDOM AND STRENGTH in the middle of life’s problems. I heard an excellent quote on “Family Life Today” which is ministry to encourage and strengthen the family, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ. The quote was this: “Spiritual growth occurs when you exercise your soul not on the basis of feelings, but on the basis of God’s Word during the problems and concerns of this life.” EXCELLENT!
Our faith can grow, and it needs to so we can be strong in the Lord in life’s problems—and so we can be the witness to others that Jesus is real and that He is Lord!
Job 1 (NKJV)
21
And he said: “ Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return there.
The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.”
Job 2 (NKJV)
3
Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil? And still he holds fast to his integrity, although you incited Me against him, to destroy him without cause.”
NOTE:
I admire Job’s love and faith in God. And note that God is not the cause of tragedy and misery in Job’s family and life.
God never wants to cause misery. He is not, as some people characterize him, “just holding a big stick waiting for you to mess up so He can clobber you.”
No, God has always been THE GOD OF MERCY—steadfast, unfailing covenant love.
God Himself later rebukes Job’s “friends” by reminding them of this very fact. For they had been accusing Job that he must have sinned against God, and that God had caused Job’s misery.
Job 42 (NKJV)
8
Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to your folly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.”
~~~
It is true, of course, that if we sin and persist in sin with an unrepentant heart, that we will open the door for the enemy to come in and cause pain and harm in a way that God never intended.
~~~
When we honestly have not sinned and when God allows difficult things to happen to me that I don’t understand, may we be like Job: “Blessed be the name of the Lord.”
I am reminded of this most excellent Christian song by Christian artist Matt Redman
“Blessed Be Your Name
In the land that is plentiful
Where your streams of abundance flow
Blessed be your name
Blessed Be Your name
When I’m found in the desert place
Though I walk through the wilderness
Blessed Be Your name
Every blessing you pour out
I’ll turn back to praise
When the darkness closes in
Still I will say
Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your name
Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your glorious name
Blessed be Your name
When the sun’s shining down on me
When the world’s ‘all as it should be’
Blessed be Your name
Blessed be Your name
On the road marked with suffering
Though there’s pain in the offering
Blessed be Your name
Every blessing you pour out
I’ll turn back to praise
When the darkness closes in
Still I will say
Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your name
Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your glorious name
Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your name
Blessed be the name of the Lord
Blessed be Your glorious name
You give and take away
You give and take away
My heart will choose to say
Lord Blessed be your name”
~~~
I Corinthians 14 (NKJV)
2
For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God
4
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
14
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15
What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.
NOTE:
The born again spirit of each believer is praying, and that can manifest itself as tongues. Of course, the language with which we normally speak can also be an instrument of our born again spirit as we speak out of deep prayer and worship.
When our born again spirit does speak in tongues and is praising and worshipping God, we can ask God to allow us to understand what the Holy Spirit is praying so we can pray with more clarity and with more of God’s wisdom. “I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding.”
The point for those who do speak with tongues is not just to edify one’s self in the Lord (though we do need to be spiritually strong with every tool that God gives us!).
The point of tongues is to gain God’s wisdom for our normal speaking and living so we can follow God more clearly, and so we can minister to others in the wisdom of the Spirit. Then, we can minister to others with more wisdom and compassion of the Lord Jesus.
How do we gain this understanding in our daily and normal speaking and living? Through interpretation. Interpretation does not have to come from someone else with God’s “translation” of the message in tongues given to them by God. God can give the interpretation or “translation” to those who speak in tongues ask the Holy Spirit to teach them.
~~~
Psalm 37 (NKJV)
23
The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD, and He delights in his way.
24
Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; for the LORD upholds him with His hand.
NOTE:
I like this excellent quote from “The Treasury of David” by Charles Spurgeon. Though this quote is not a comment on this particular verse, it fits very well!
“Those whose hearts are right shall not err for want of heavenly direction. WHERE GOD SANCTIFIES THE HEART HE ENLIGHTENS THE HEAD. We all wish to choose our way; BUT WHAT A MERCY IS IT WHEN THE LORD DIRECTS THAT CHOICE, AND MAKES FREE WILL TO BE GOODWILL! IF WE MAKE OUR WILL GOD’S WILL, GOD WILL LET IS HAVE OUR WILL.”
“God does not violate our will, but leaves much to our choice; NEVERTHELESS, HE INSTRUCTS OUR WILLS, AND SO WE CHOOSE THAT WHICH IS WELL PLEASING IN HIS SIGHT.”
“The will should be subject to law; there is a way which we should choose, but so ignorant are we that we need to be taught, and so wilful that none but God himself can teach us effectually.”
PEACE AND GRACE
Vance